			    TRAVELLER Digest 479

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) sorry by tfv@oasis.ot.com (Theodore F. Vaida ][)
  2) ?? by toad@ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Lane)
  3) Re: TRAVELLER digest 476 by "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>
  4) Re: TRAVELLER digest 478 by "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>
  5) Clipper models by "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>
  6) Jump Coils/Grids/Coils - Canon by David Elrick <Dave.Elrick@ps.co.uk>
  7) Re: TRAVELLER digest 476 by A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
  8) Traveller 2300? by eackerma@vt.edu (Eric Ackerman)
  9) Re: TRAVELLER digest 477 by pbravey@inference.co.uk
 10) Re: TRAVELLER digest 478 by Scott and Vivian Nolan <nolan@DGS.dgsys.com>
 11) Grandfather, the Sparklers/Primordials, and Longbow by Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
 12) Re: And the latest score is Grids 6, Coils 5 by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
 13) The point of life support for fuel tanks by "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
 14) Re: TRAVELLER digest 476 by aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
 15) Re: And the latest score is Grids 6, Coils 5 by "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>

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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 23:50:18 -0500
From: tfv@oasis.ot.com (Theodore F. Vaida ][)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: sorry
Message-ID: <v01510101acc8440034dd@[199.234.240.114]>

how the heck do I get unsubscribed?

- tfv0@lehigh.edu, tfv@oasis.ot.com ---------------------------------------
"Trust no one and be honest with all" - Claudius the God
Member of Sigma Chi, Field Representative for Vector/Cutco
        Electrical Engineering student at Lehigh University...



------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:30:50 -0800 (PST)
From: toad@ugcs.caltech.edu (Benjamin Lane)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: ??
Message-ID: <199511100530.VAA26969@mince.ugcs.caltech.edu>

I liked the cruiser in this issue, and I liked the 
comparison with the aurora. 
However, just one thing - it was said that he Aurora 
lacked direction finding capacity on its AEMS.
That's silly. Think how a radar is built...
cheers,
/ben

------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:35:26 +0000
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 476
Message-ID: <199511100948.BAA17727@igc3.igc.apc.org>

> From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>

> 
> OK: the data pre-rebellion is correct: both worlds have
> always had a C port.  

> However, how can they have a starport, when all Red Zoned
> worlds are forbidden from having starports?  

Where does this idea come from?  Red zone designation
means only  the following:

	"Red Zone:  The Traveller's Aid Society travel zone
classification for a nation, world, or system which is
dangerous to travellers.  In general, the imposition of a
red zone classification indicates the location is
quarantined, interdicted by a higher authority, or at war.
	"Quarantine indicates that a dangerous disease is present, 
and the danger of war is self-explanatory, but interdiction 
requires further discussion. Interstellar governments often 
find it necessary to restrict access to worlds or systems 
for positical or military reasons, and do so by publishing 
interdictions.  Enforcement of interdiction varies with the 
reason for the restriction.  Interdiction may be imposed on 
a world if it is a military base or other sensitive 
installation, for the private reservations belonging to 
powerful families desiring seclusion, for developing 
societies which the government has elected to allow to 
evolve in isolation, or for valuable resource areas being 
saved for later development or exploitation."

Library Data (N-Z), at 16.

The Library Data entry implies that red zone classification
may be temporary -- e.g., for the duration of a war or
epidemic.  This reason alone demonstrates that it is not
inconsistent to have both a starport and a red zone.  A 
world with a starport could be at war or suffering from an 
epidemic at the time that the starmap was published, but by 
the time the travellers arrive, everything is back to 
normal and the planet has rejoined interstellar commerce.

Moreover, several stated examples of interdictions imply
that some travellers are allowed to travel (even without
restrictions) to and from the interdicted world --
specifically, military base, other sensitive installation,
or private family reservation.  Each of these situations
would be well served by a starport.

Do we know why Andor and Candory are red zoned?  Ancient
sites, if any are present (I don't remember) are certain
to be treated as sensitive installations.  The government
may have "elected to allow [these worlds] to evolve in
isolation", perhaps at the request of the Droyne
themselves.  I don't believe that the canon specifies the
reasons for the classifications, leaving it to us as 
referees to make sense of the data given.

> If the Imperium/Regency wants to keep Droyne worlds
> isolated, 

What evidence have we of this motivation?

> and reduce the chance of any 'leakage' of
> possible Doomsday weapons, 

or of this?

--Glenn

------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:43:50 +0000
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 478
Message-ID: <199511100948.BAA17716@igc3.igc.apc.org>

> 3. How do you pronounce Aubaine? Is it Ow-Bayne, or
> Ore-Ban, or Oh-Bayne, > or what?
> 
> ---===--- Andrew Boulton

I pronounce it as if it were French:  >>o benn<< and be
sure to make your lips into a real "o".  That usually puts 
the Aubainois in stitches.

--Glenn

------------------------------

Date:          Fri, 10 Nov 1995 01:47:18 +0000
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Clipper models
Message-ID: <199511100948.BAA17723@igc3.igc.apc.org>

I have several RAFM models of the Clipper and various 
modules.  How do they fit together (I don't have TNE -- I 
suppose if the answer is there, a page reference will be 
more than enough answer)?

Thanks.

--Glenn

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 10:17:00 PST
From: David Elrick <Dave.Elrick@ps.co.uk>
To: TML <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Jump Coils/Grids/Coils - Canon
Message-ID: <30A39784@pc136>



Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca> said:

> I think the debate here is simply to iron out what the canon from GDW is,
> how they've changed it (if they've changed it?), and what the relative
> merits/flaws of the old/new canon are.

Ah! An easy question to answer:

In classic Traveller, the canon was jump coils forming part of the jump 
drive mechanism (source: Supplement 8, Library Data A-M. The entry on 
Lanthanum says that Lanthanum is a rare earth element used in the 
construction of coils for jump drives).

In Megatraveller, the canon was jump grids covering the hull of the ship 
(source: Starship Operator's Manual - already quoted on this list).

In TNE, the canon appears to be jump coils again (source: a conversation 
with Dave Neilson reported on this list a few days ago).

I'll leave it to others to discuss the relative merits/flaws of each system.

Hope this helps (or fans the fires, or whatever...)

Kind Regards

Dave Elrick

 ---------------------------------------------
If they abolish guns, how are we ever going to shoot the Magic players?
 ---------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:19:59 +0000
From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 476
Message-ID: <199511101126.GAA21702@Mithril.MPGN.COM>

Andrew Boulton asked:
>What's TTC's email address? The one I've got keeps going boing.
SwrdKnght@aol.com

Alvin Plummer commented on Andor, Candory and Red Zones:

>OK: the data pre-rebellion is correct: both worlds have always had a C 
>port.  However, how can they have a starport, when all Red Zoned worlds 
>are forbidden from having starports?

Following up other peoples' posts,

I think (shields up) that the C ratings date back to before _space_ports
existed, i.e. pre-CT book 6 (Scouts). Even an interdicted planet would
probably be allowed _space_ports to allow in-system or fast around-the-world
travel. I don't have the data with me to know if these systems had scout
bases, but the C rating might otherwise indicate the facilities available to
scout, military or other ships with special permission to land there. Or the
starport could be open to normal shipping but the rest of the world is
interdicted (i.e. extremely severe customs at the starport).

Andy


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:36:56 -0500
From: eackerma@vt.edu (Eric Ackerman)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Traveller 2300?
Message-ID: <199511101155.GAA17886@quackerjack.cc.vt.edu>

<Delurking>

Does anyone know what happend to the GDW product Traveller 2300? I remember
seeing a boxed set and the spaceship rules called Cruiser(?) in the mid-to
late 1980s. I haven't seen them recently. Is this game system now orphaned?
Is it worth trying to find a copy?

Eric

<Relurking>
Eric G. Ackermann                                       
Special Collections/University Libraries         VV      TTTTTTTTTTT    
Virginia Polytechnic Institute & State Univ.      VV     VV  TT  
PO Box 90001, Blacksburg, VA 24062-9001            VV   VV  TT
(540) 231-6308 FAX(540) 231-9263  eackerma@vt.edu   VV VV  TT
http://scholar2.lib.vt.edu/spec/spechp.htm           VVV  TT 


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 12:09:55 GMT
From: pbravey@inference.co.uk
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 477
Message-ID: <9510108160.AA816034294@smtplink.inference.co.uk>


David Elrick <Dave.Elrick@ps.co.uk> wrote:

>I've been running Traveller since Classic Traveller days, when Lanthanum
>coils were used. I dont remember if I ever saw this written down, but I've
>always assumed that the Lanthanum coils were capacitors which were used to
>store the energy until it was used to trigger the jump.

I think it's mentioned in High Guard though I couldn't swear to it - its
been years since I looked at the book.

>This explained the length of time it took to prepare for jump (charging the
>capacitors), and gave my player characters a big incentive not to change
>their minds about jumping halfway through the charging process (can you say
>BOOM!....?).

I would have thought that there would be a 'safety valve' to bleed off
all of the extra energy.  However, I wouldn't want to be near the ship
when the valve blows.

>I also assumed that, due to the amount of energy required (not being a
>physicist, I based my guess on the proportion of fuel used), the capacitors
>are enormous. That explains what takes up all that space in drive rooms (not
>to mention leaving excellent possibilities for 'hunt the mad bomber in the
>drive room' adventures - anyone see 'Hunt for Red October'?).

For some reason, crawling around a drive room filled with huge capacitors
while someone is shooting at you wouldn't really appeal to me as a player.
I suppose it might give you a buzz :)

[Snip]

Paul



------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 10:25:14 -0500 (EST)
From: Scott and Vivian Nolan <nolan@DGS.dgsys.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 478
Message-ID: <Pine.SOL.3.91.951110102446.7049B-100000@DGS>



On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, Glenn M. Goffin wrote:

> > 3. How do you pronounce Aubaine? Is it Ow-Bayne, or
> > Ore-Ban, or Oh-Bayne, > or what?

"Aw-Bayn"

Scott

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 09:55:41 -0800
From: Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Grandfather, the Sparklers/Primordials, and Longbow
Message-ID: <0a393990@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

You can find plenty of information about Grandfather in the Droyne Alien Module 
(#5 I believe it is) if you can get your hands on a copy.  Also, Adventure 12(?)
Secret of the Ancients contains a great deal of information.

Project Longbow is described in two TNE products in great detail:  SURVIVAL 
MARGIN and THE REGENCY SOURCEBOOK.  I highly recommend both of them.

As for the Sparklers/Primordials, you'll need to obtain a copy of the somewhat 
rare MegaTraveller Journal #4.  In the letters page, DGP describes what they 
intended to do with this mysterious creatures who apparently make the Ancients 
look like minor leaguers.  Though Dave Nilsen has hinted that he doesn't intend 
to use the Primordials in TNE, he hasn't exactly said he won't for certain.

Personally, I hope the Primordials _do_ play a part in TNE.  I don't buy Dave's 
and other GDWers' arguments that the Ancients should never have been fleshed out
because it "took away the mystery" or whatever.  When you're dealing with the 
depths of space, there's always more mystery.

--Chris

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 16:12:05 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: And the latest score is Grids 6, Coils 5
Message-ID: <120@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

Andy wrote :

> BIG BIG BIG BIG Biiiiig difference. How do you prevent a ship from jumping?
> Got a Jump grid? Ok, hit it with ship lasers, dynamite it from the inside or
> outside. No jump grid.... errr... you mean we gotta go find some tiny
> lanthanum coil somewhere in the drive room and that's the _only_ way to
> knock out the ship's jump drive? (Ok, so there's all the super-fast fusion
> reactor which actually powers it and so on, but you get my drift...)

I think the jump grid was much more resistant to damage than this. According to 
the Q&A in Travellers' Digest 16, if under 10% of the grid is destroyed, then 
the computer can compensate, if over 10% is destroyed, then the jumpspace 
calculations become more complex, but can still be done (of course this delay 
could let people chasing you catch up). It seems that they were designed with 
very heavy multiple redundancy. This could be justified as even if you don't 
get shot at, it would be a shame if a particle hitting you in orbit took out a 
critical jump wire. But anyway, I like the hull grids, those mesh ore carriers 
are such a colourful idea that they alone should justify the concept.

Hang on though ..... why do we need to debate whether there is still a hull 
grid? GDW may have informally said that they are moving back to jump coils, but 
if so, would they perhaps like to explain why in FFS, page 42 there is the 
reference 'Jump drives .... Surface area: Surface area in square meters equals 
cubic meters of jump drive /3'. If that isn't a reference to a hull grid, then 
what is it?

-- 
Brendan 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 17:52:38 GMT
From: "Brendan O'Donovan" <Brendan@odonovan.demon.co.uk>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: The point of life support for fuel tanks
Message-ID: <124@odonovan.demon.co.uk>

   One of the tweaks most designers make to their designs is to delete life 
support for the ship's fuel tankage, saving on volume and cost. Yet GDW's 
designs all include life support for fuel tanks. This might not just be useful 
for maintainance though, it could be a vital part of ship's life. After all, 
the tension in jumpspace on board a Broadsword or a Midu Agashaam must be very 
great, not only trapped in the ship, but also trapped in jumpspace. 
Early Solomani psychologists noticed that mental illness became more common as 
interstellar travel increased, and attributed it mainly to effects of 
jumpspace.
   To help alleviate this stress it became a custom for ships in jumpspace to 
use their now empty jumpfuel tanks as a recreation space, with fittings for use 
in tennis/squash/basketball/boloball etc. The size of the tanks often surprises 
first time travellers, as the contrast with the size of staterooms is very 
great.
Example tank sizes
Broadsword     2240m^3.  Sports room 4m x 23.6m x 23.6m
Midu Agashaam  10,500m^3  - 7m x 30m x 50m

Adventure Seeds:

The liner the characters are travelling on holds a boloball league.

A mercenary cruiser holds a martial arts contest.

When the tanks are opened in jumpspace, a freeze dried body is found inside.

While a game is in progress in the tank, a valve from the maneuver fuel tank 
springs open, spraying liquid hydrogen into the tank - mechanical fault or 
sabotage?

Poor hydrogen evacuation before it is turned over to recreational use results 
in a massive fireball, gutting much of the ship and threatening to destroy the 
jump bubble.

-- 
Brendan 

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 18:36 GMT
From: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk (Andrew Boulton)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Cc: aboulton@cix.compulink.co.uk
Subject: Re: TRAVELLER digest 476
Message-ID: <memo.341887@cix.compulink.co.uk>

In-Reply-To: <199511091413.JAA28348@Ambassador.MPGN.COM>


  > From: A.S.Lilly@bnr.co.uk (Andy Lilly) 
  > Subject: And the latest score is Grids 6, Coils 5 Message-ID:
  >  
  > "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Why is it _so_ hard to grind this
  > into some game designers' heads? 

Hey, they gotta justify their existence *somehow*...

  > From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <ggoffin@igc.apc.org> 
  > >  
  > > > From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca> 
  > > >  
  > > > ***Another error!*** 
  > > >  
  > > > pg 48  The droyne worlds are both classified as "Red Zone" *and*
  > > > have starport C ports *and* have massively increased tech levels
  > > > (from 9 to D on Andor, 8 to E in Candory) 
  >  
  > OK: the data pre-rebellion is correct: both worlds have always had
  > a C port.  However, how can they have a starport, when all Red Zoned
  > worlds are forbidden from having starports?  If the Imperium/Regency

AIUI, *contact* is forbidden, not starports. If the locals build one,
what're they gonna do, nuke it?

  > --------------------------------------------------------------------
  > --------- Alvin Plummer 
  > ---------------------------------------------------------------------

---===---
Andrew Boulton

------------------------------

Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 14:19:07 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: And the latest score is Grids 6, Coils 5
Message-ID: <199511102119.AA07635@ns-1.csn.net>

At 01:09 pm 11/10/95 -0500, you wrote:
>Andy wrote :
>
>Hang on though ..... why do we need to debate whether there is still a hull 
>grid? GDW may have informally said that they are moving back to jump coils,
but 
>if so, would they perhaps like to explain why in FFS, page 42 there is the 
>reference 'Jump drives .... Surface area: Surface area in square meters equals 
>cubic meters of jump drive /3'. If that isn't a reference to a hull grid, then 
>what is it?


        He shoots ... HE SCORES!
 ___________________________________________________________________
  Dave Golden                              PGP Public Key available
  goldendj@whip.com        http://www2.csn.net/~goldendj/index.html

 "He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his
  enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes
  a precedent that will reach to himself" -- Thomas Paine


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End of TRAVELLER Digest 479
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